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Give me a Dag'kar over a Whitestar anyday! I'll obliterate you from 50 kilometers away! Hell I'd take a Dak'kar against 3 Omegas and thier full fighter contingents anyday too, and the Dag'kar is smaller than the Whitestar!

And if I had 2 Dagkars...

And if a pea shooter got anywhere closer, you'd loose an entire fleet against it

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Remember it's got Ion torps too. Two Dag'kars can cover each other pretty effectivly against fighters. Energy mines can be highly effective against fighters too, even at close range. I've often intentionaly taken ten points of damage to my forward hull when I can destroy an entire squad of skindancing fighters in the process.

It is worthy to point out that the statistics on whitestars destroyed is most likely false, particularly in light of "Between the Darkness and the Light." Recall the destruction of somewhere around 24-30 Advanced Destroyers by a smaller number of Whitestars (Ivanova's quote, "There were more of them than there were of us..").

Last time I checked, an Omega-X was considerably more powerful than an Omega, and a sudden drop off five-fold or more in performance doesn't seem likely for the fleet. Granted there will be a weakinging because of the nature of the mission, but not by that proportion.

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Yeah I have all B5 episodes and what Ivanova said was an error in the script, there sure were not more Omega-Xs than White Stars and irrelevant of the casualties numbers in the encounters which we have discussed I know everyone will agree with me that in that and most other encounters the WSs outnumbered their enemies plenty.

I use to have a page which had all B5 links in the net and the synopsis for every episode was found here. Most of the links were old and never updated and didn't work so I erased the old links page but I'll try to find the sysnopsis page again. Remember that just because the show didn't show it doesn't mean it didn't happen, come on B5 didn't have the budget Star Wars has, that's probably the reason huge fleet battles never occured and the few that did never lasted very long nor were they shown in great detail. Ok take "The Long Twilight Struggle", one of my fave episodes, in the epiosde it says the bulk of the Narn fleet was going to attack Ragesh 3. Do you know what the bulk of a fleet is, it is the majority of the fleet's ships, ie most of the Narn Navy. That's why after that battle very few Narn ships were left. Now the episode showed about 6 G'Quans and a few fighters jump in and face about 5 Battlecrabs. Do you really believe 6 G'Quans are the bulk of the Narn Navy? I can assure you not. The synopsis describes 200 G'Quans were involved in that battle and all were destroyed and yes by 5 Crabs. The stats are from an episode guide which has the synopsis and even had interviews with JMS after each episode answering questions and running the summary of the episode so I am not making up the WS statistics. Another example was the Battle of the Line. There were 20,000 ships on the Earth side and supposedly about 5000-8,000 on the Minbari side if I recall correctly. Now did you see these numbers anywhere in "In the Beginning" or "And the Sky full of Stars", no you didn't. ITB had a brief panning camera shot of the Earth fleet just before the battle and then not a single cap ship was shown only Starfurys, not even in the background. If you look real close you can see EA cap ships in the Grey Council's and they are doing nothing, only Nials and Furys are moving and fighting. If I find the episode guide page I'll post the link.

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Cheers Ghost Rider for looking.

Fleet sizes have been an eternal debate in Babylon 5 as they are never directly shown. Some things are taken for granted such as that Narn fleet you mentioned being larger and other things are very unknown (at least initially to anyone other than JMS) like whether there were more than the five Shadow Battlecrabs present (by my reckoning a ratio of 40 to 1 is not quite right but a ratio of 4/5 to 1 is possible given that no Battlecrabs of the five are *seen* to be destroyed but the Narn weapons are clearly able to damage a Battlecrab. Also bear in mind that Narn Q'Quan weaponry is similar in power to a Whitestar and they can kill a Battlecrab given enough time.

In the Battle of the Line those numbers are what I think sounds reasonable if every fighter is included (i.e. Around 500 capital ships and 1000 escort vessels for EA).

Overall this is why I think that we are all so interested in seeing any "official" comments from JMS on the subject of battles due to everyone here wanting as realistic a simulation as possible

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acaully in the begining - you saw a shot of the line and earth orbit was jam packed with ships and the mnibari jumping in there were thousands of jumpoints opening and many many ships coming in - so yes 20,000 ships would have been about correct considering the entire screen was fulla dn teh fleet went offscreen

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Also in "Severed Dreams" the initial strike by Loyalist forces showed 2 Omegas and 2 Hyperions in the attack. After the jump in the 2 Hyperions mysteriously disappeared but we know they were there and were destroyed. Just because an episode didn't show it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The WS is designated as a Monitor, this means its a small patrol ship like a Corvette, I agree it has much better firepower than a normal ship of its size but if you even out the sides the WSs are no real match for Omegas. Of course I know no one is going to believe me and there's sure to be a number of posts contradicting what I just said but I did read the numbers in the official episode synopsis. [/B][/QUOTE]

and in servered dreams there was another silly mistake, Sheridan says he wants all guns to fire at the rowanoak, but it gets rammed by the churchill and blows up. so you see b5's guns fire at the aggripa and gets majorly damaged. then you see sheridan saying to the rowanoak to surrender, but its dead...he should have been saying it the the captain of the aggripa....so that episode seems a little bummed up

about in the beginning, I read somewhere that there were some Omega Destroyers in one of the scenes, in the background, and it's true, I saw 2 omega destroyers in the back of the fleet, who was fighting a minbari fleet.

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JMS has actually said that Sheridan referring to the Roanoake was just an error by the actor Bruce Boxleitner. Pure and simple, not as if any other program has ever made such an error

The firepower of a Whitestar is supposed to be similar to many heavy weapons including X-ray lasers. There are several examples, including references to 'has no more firepower than the average Whitestar' in reference to powerful weaponry and their ability to actually destroy Shadow Battlecrabs. Equivalent Narn weaponry on G'Quans didn't do much other than slice a small bit off of one Battlecrab.

I'm not saying that a Whitestar would win one-on-one with an Omega but two-on-one should be close.

I prefer to rely as much as possible on evidence from the show only, not on anybody else's comments. If it's not directly in the show then quite frankly it's hard to judge. I make these sorts of comparisons by comparing the involved ships with ships that have had their combat abilities well established.

Anyway, we've been through all this and there can't be any resolution to the arguament short of taking sides because quite frankly there is too much contradicting evidence from very different "official" sources from both sides.

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When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

The numbers are definitely 2 Omegas and 2 Hyperions/Midwinters vs 2 Omegas and Babylon 5 at the start. Then 2 more Omegas and 1 Hyperion/Midwinter jump in for the Loyalist forces. Finally 3 Sharlins and the Whitestar jump in on Babylon 5's side.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mobvekhar
about in the beginning, I read somewhere that there were some Omega Destroyers in one of the scenes, in the background, and it's true, I saw 2 omega destroyers in the back of the fleet, who was fighting a minbari fleet.

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What! Omagas in ITB?, I'm 100 % sure that they were Novas. I mean, the CGI team makes mistakes, but they're not that stupid.

well, it's in the scene before the scene in which the orion station is blown up. it's very difficult to see, but if you look carefully, you'll see that 2 of the ships in the background have rotating sections.

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"Collision Alert, Collision Alert"

Nope...I see no ships with rotating sections. They are all Nova's (and a Hyperion I think).

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Check this topic:

http://www.tgu.org.uk/Forum/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000828.html

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