VWBB - OT-Rogue Leader for Gamecube

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- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- OT-Rogue Leader for Gamecube (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=4123)

Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-17-2001 06:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Alphakiller
By the way, stylizing graphics != "making them for kiddies" damn it!

OK then what other reason is there for altering the visual style like that?

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Posted by CrazyEddie on 10-17-2001 08:19 PM:

the reason they switched the style is because Miyamoto likes cel-shading, he even said at E3 that he loved the visual style of Jet Grind Radio.

Posted by LionHeart on 10-17-2001 10:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CrazyEddie
The reason Nintendo excluded backlighting from the GBA was battery life, a GBA gets 14-20 hours of gameplay off 2 AA batteries, if they'd but in backlighting it would have dropped to closer to 4-6 hours.

My Sega Game Gear only gets like 2 hours worth of gameplay and it runs on 6 batteries. Not very good though.

Sony is l337 now. Most of their games is 'M rated' now. Thank God that the Final Fantasy series is on their side.

Nintindo was fine untill the N64 was made. GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and The World is Not Enough was the most decent game they ever made. Everything went downhill when Pokemon came into fasion. (Damn Pokemon). Its great that its has good graphics and everything but do you really expect that they will start targeting older teens? Of course not. Their only money maker out there is Pokemon, SuperSmash Brothers, and Mario. All 3 of these game they may going to do unill the GC dies out. And how do you expect that they will target teens with a purple console, huh? They may try target teens out there, but they are mostly loyal to the kids. ( I still have my 'ol SNES connected to my TV.)

And now Sega. Yes, Sega is going downhill very fast. Back in the days I always thought that the Genisus was superior to the SNES. (What do you guys thought about that anyway?) Then they came out with Sega CD and Sega Saturn. I barely remember them now. Then they try to impress us with DreamCast. And it didnt work. Friends of mine wanted me to by a DreamCast but I wasnt that stupid. DreamCast makes games that I have no idea that they target. They need to make more games period.

Antari. Antari is good. I played some archade game (in a hotel) were you play a pizza guy on a bike and you have to nagivate him through the dangerous streets to his destination. That was actually fun.

Posted by Strider on 10-17-2001 10:24 PM:

As mentioned, Nintendo just gained the entire Resident Evil series.

And are you that childish to judge Zelda on its graphics? They may have been made more colourfull and cell orientated, but the gameplay is probably better than ever.

Super Smash Bros will simply be great. I am 18, and I loved Smash Bros for N64.

N64 had few games, and many were 'childish'. But they were more fun than ANYTHING else around. When games were released, they were all good.

Both of the N64 Zelda titles, Smash Bros, Bond, Perfect Dark, Rogue Squadron, Conker, Mario Kart, and OH so many more.

Colourful, childish, yes. Fun as hell? You bet.....

And for Dreamcast, they had simply amazing launch titles and sports titles. May I mention Soul Calibur? Perhaps the best fighting game ever made, as said by a large majority of gamers.

Nintendo has NEVER failed. I highly doubt they will now. With great titles on the horizon (Soul Calibur 2) and what I mentioned earlier, it will surely be a success. Sold out online in 4 minutes.

SCREW graphics. Gameplay is where it is at, and Nintendo has never failed at that.

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Posted by LionHeart on 10-18-2001 01:24 AM:

You like Pokemon too?

Posted by Strider on 10-18-2001 05:58 AM:

No, I hate it. But Playstation has a ton of crappy ass games as well, does that mean the system, or all the games are bad? Hell no.

Childish

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-18-2001 07:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by LionHeart
My Sega Game Gear only gets like 2 hours worth of gameplay and it runs on 6 batteries. Not very good though.

The GG was released nearly a decade ago, there have been advances in low current semiconductor technology since then, not to mention rechargable batteries. The GBA could have had backlighting but Nintendos engineers just smoke too much crack.

Posted by Alphakiller on 10-18-2001 12:47 PM:

You know, I can use my GBA with no backlight and play Castlevania: CotM with no troubles.
Maybe it's because I don't live in a cave.

Anyway, the point is, well stated by Strider above, that Nintendo knows gameplay. Mario Kart is a great party game. Hell, Mario Party, all 3 of them or something. GoldenEye, PD, Smash Brothers, etc...tons of great 'social' games.
PSX had great "play alone" games, but for those of us who had friends who liked goofing off with games and stuff - all about the N64. So they both had serious strengths and weaknesses.

Now, watch Nintendo take that aspect of N64 and their attempt (IMO a good one) to get great "play alone" games...GC's got serious potential. I think it will be the biggest console on the block once it hits its stride...

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-18-2001 03:06 PM:

I don't live in a cave either however having to position myself so that light can fall directly onto the screen of my Game Boy Color is annoying. This should have been the first thing Nintendo looked into when it designed the GBA and not overlooked it because it would have added $US40 to the purchase price, they could have scaled back the machine in other areas to make up the $US40.

As for the GC, that has the same obstacle in its way that the Xbox does: 17 million PS2's. I still think Sony have it made this time around but if Nintendo can make good on broadening its user base without alienating its existing users then I think they can become a contender in the next round.

quote:
Originally posted by Admiral LSD

The GG was released nearly a decade ago, there have been advances in low current semiconductor technology since then, not to mention rechargable batteries. The GBA could have had backlighting but Nintendos engineers just smoke too much crack.

I've had some time to think about this and while I still think Miyamoto and the Nintendo design department consume copious amounts of hallucinagenic compounds, I'm prepared to revise my comment on their engineers. Granted they've made a few big mistakes, putting a 3Mhz CPU in the SNES was a bad idea (to get a better idea of what they did picture a 486 packing a Geforce3) as was not putting a backlight on the GBA but I've been thinking about the guts of the Gamecube and depending on what they've done they're either brilliant or extremely stupid.

The GC isn't the largest next-generation console around, I think that honour goes to the VCR-sized Xbox, and I've been wondering for ages just how they fit everything in to that small box (Its rumoured to be around the same height as 10 conventional sized CD jewel cases stacked on top of each other but I'm guessing its a bit deeper). Given that it uses a PowerPC, from memory a G3, derivative, thats at least 200-300 tracks you have to lay on the circuit board to make the various interconnections.

There are various ways you can achieve this, such as multilayered PCBs, multiple PCBs and packing the tracks closer together. Each of those isn't without its fair share of problems. Multi-layered PCBs have huge delamination problems above 4 layers and if they've done it this way, they're probably going to have to replace, and keep replacing, several GCs. Multiple PCBs is probably the way to go since you can stack the boards on top of each other using the bus connections to support the boards along with some plastic spacers to ad rigidity. However, doing it this way makes keeping the system cool difficult since you have to make room for the heatsinks and fans. Packing the tracks closer together is out of the question due to problems with parasitic capacitance. You have to make the tracks physically longer to get around this and given that you're not dealing with a lot of PCB space to begin with, it's probably quite difficult.

Whatever method they've used it'll become apparent very early on if it sucks since they'll have to replace (and ultimately redesign) several machines to fix it so if they've chosen the wrong method it will cost them a packet.

Posted by Santiago on 10-18-2001 08:36 PM:

Why don't you just go look at a damn screenshot of the PCP layout instead of BSing?

They are out there, go take a look.

Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-18-2001 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
Why don't you just go look at a damn screenshot of the PCP layout instead of BSing?

They are out there, go take a look.

Seeing as though you've seen it can I have a link please?

Hmm... I forgot to mention crosstalk as a problem in packing the tracks closer together...

Posted by Santiago on 10-19-2001 04:17 AM:

This is where your thinking is flawed:

"The GC isn't the largest next-generation console around, I think that honour goes to the VCR-sized Xbox, and I've been wondering for ages just how they fit everything in to that small box "

You are using the Xbox as the basis of a console design, and assuming it's somehow done well. The Xbox is a huge clunky heavy beast with a HD in it. It's not so much that the Gamecube is small, it is, but so is the PSX. It's just that the Xbox is HUGE.

I'll try to find you the picture of the inside of the Gamecube, but I make no guarantees, it's been afew weeks since I saw it.

But from what I saw, there is no stacking or any other outlandish things that you stated.

I'll make a look for it and get back to you.

Posted by Santiago on 10-19-2001 04:22 AM:

Well, here is the whole thing:

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/faq/motherboard1.jpg

That's all there is to it. Disk drive and all that above, and you are ready to roll.

Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-19-2001 06:58 PM:

Re: This is where your thinking is flawed:

quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
You are using the Xbox as the basis of a console design, and assuming it's somehow done well. The Xbox is a huge clunky heavy beast with a HD in it. It's not so much that the Gamecube is small, it is, but so is the PSX. It's just that the Xbox is HUGE.

Thats not what I said at all, I was saying that of all the next-generation consoles the GC was probably the smallest. Even the PS2 takes up a fair amount of space if you don't stand it vertically.

quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
Well, here is the whole thing:

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/faq/motherboard1.jpg

That's all there is to it. Disk drive and all that above, and you are ready to roll.

*smacks forehead*

I didn't realise they'd integrated the core logic chipset with the graphics processor, that would cut the number of interconnections down somewhat... Judging from that pic I'd say we're probably dealing with a multi-layered PCB. Notice how most of the board is a light green? The green is the solder mask, the lighter areas indicate copper and the darker areas the fibreglass PCB substrate. Although the quality of the pic makes it hard to tell, I'm guessing the top layer serves as a ground plane, not a bad idea when you have signals buzzing around at 200-400Mhz however since the 4 chips on the board appear to be ball grid types I'm still left wondering how they achieve plated through holes onto the other layers. I'll have to pull one of these apart myself in order to figure that out...

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