VWBB - Shivans

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- FreeSpace 1/2 Discussion (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=33)
-- Shivans (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=1387)

Posted by Xaphod_x on 08-09-2001 05:46 PM:

quite a lot of the creatures you mentioned use weapons, rather than having them as part of the body.. The closest most of them get are the Kilrathi's big teeth and claws, and the shadows' spikes. In starship troopers there were several species of bugs, most of them subservient to the brain bug, which in itself had little protection.
As for having lives devoted to combat, humans may have seemed that way during war times, but we're not grown and made espescially to fight, which is what the "shivans" we've seen appear to be.
I am suggesting that the shivans we have seen are subservient to the true shivans, whether they're made by them or a slave species.
And as for how realistic it is for a sentient creature to have weapons grown in their body, you simply have to look at Earth. We are the dominant species because we are the smartest, not the toughest.

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Posted by Bman35 on 08-09-2001 05:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Xaphod_x
Also, if "shivans" have been disected, then I think we would know if it's armour or just part of their body.

the results of shivan dissection were destroyed in the GTI rebellion, all studies conducted bythe GTI into shivans were destroyed. Besides alot of information about shivans would be classified way beyond your level of clearance

. It is possible that shivan could have laser beams and weapons and all this other crap put on there bodies. Maybe not regular shivan citizens but the military branch would almost certainly want there warriors to have all that crap surgically implaneted on there soildiers. Remeber the shivans seen so far are warriors, not regular shivans.

P.S. Why the hell would a want a gun in my head, why the hell would any regular person need one?

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Posted by Bman35 on 08-09-2001 05:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Xaphod_x
We are the dominant species because we are the smartest, not the toughest.

You would have to be pretty god damn smart to implant weapons on your body

hehe

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Posted by Cr@zYdAvE on 08-09-2001 06:07 PM:

Perhaps the GTVA has never encountered an actual shivan, the ones with the weapons attatched to them could of been manufactured, like them jem hadar from startrek. THe shivans r very advanced and would be advanced enough to figure out how to make organic soldiers which have exoskeletions and a sort of weapon which they r born with (well made whatever). like squids fire a sort of ink to disorientate other fishies.

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Posted by Bman35 on 08-09-2001 06:57 PM:

I think that the shivans seen in the vids are really just advanced drones created by the shivans. My question is why didnt the shivans destroy the outpost that captured the freighter in the vid. Granted that its just a freighter but it still would have some advanced tech onboard that the shivans wouldnt want the terrans or vasudans to get there hands on. What i think is that real shivans arent onboard freighters and transports, they just let the robots take care of basic stuff like that. Real shivans are on the cap ships like evas, liliths, cains, etc. Thats why they went after the cain the terrans captured, they didnt want them to see real shivans. i just had this thought so i dont know how solid this is, i probably am completely wrong, just wanted to throw it out there.

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Posted by Cr@zYdAvE on 08-09-2001 07:32 PM:

We might get somewhere a bit closer if we say all the facts we definately know about the shivans.

They are at least over 8,000 years old
They have advanced technology (includes a lot of unknown technology)
They do not aliens who can travel through subspace (they didn't kill the terrans or vasudans when they destroyed the ancients)
Their capships have crew on board (type unknown)
Their fighters are capable of having crew on board (the captured fighters has room for the terran crew)
The crew on board their ships are well adapted to life in 0 gravity
The crew are sentient (this is known from when bosch communicated with them, they have language)
They have on occasion made none violent contact with humans (the only person is Admiral Bosch and his high ranking officers who were on the shivan transport)

I think this is most of the things known about them

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Posted by Bman35 on 08-09-2001 08:28 PM:

)

quote:
Originally posted by Cr@zYdAvE
They have on occasion made none violent contact with humans (the only person is Admiral Bosch and his high ranking officers who were on the shivan transport)

I wouldnt classify as nonviolent since they massacred the entire crew onboard the Iceni, more like the first time they havent tried to kill a person not of there species. That Bosch thing is also real god damn confusing. Did Bosch know that the shivans were going to kill his crew or was he taken by suprise? He might not have liked his fellow "revolutionaries" but i doubt he wanted them all killed. What did the shivans want with Bosch? Were they going to study him like the GTI studied shivans decades ago? Did they expect the humans to be able to communicate with them? Another possibility, did the communication between Bosch and the Shivans have a any affect on there decision of blowing the crap out of Capella?(That is really unlikely but nontheless a possibility). Where did the Shivans take Bosch? Did he willfully go or was Bosch forced onto the transport? An finally What are the Shivans intention with Admiral Bosch (wanted to say his first name but i ddont know how to spell it

). All this questions are open to speculation and no one will really know the answers to them without FS3

.

So type up what you guys think.

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Posted by venom2506 on 08-09-2001 10:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Xaphod_x
quite a lot of the creatures you mentioned use weapons, rather than having them as part of the body.. The closest most of them get are the Kilrathi's big teeth and claws, and the shadows' spikes. In starship troopers there were several species of bugs, most of them subservient to the brain bug, which in itself had little protection.
As for having lives devoted to combat, humans may have seemed that way during war times, but we're not grown and made espescially to fight, which is what the "shivans" we've seen appear to be.
I am suggesting that the shivans we have seen are subservient to the true shivans, whether they're made by them or a slave species.
And as for how realistic it is for a sentient creature to have weapons grown in their body, you simply have to look at Earth. We are the dominant species because we are the smartest, not the toughest.

you switched my ideas: kilrathi and so on were cited as races that live for battle, not about weapons in the bodies.
I talked about humans as an answer to the fact that you said that usually sentient species didn't live for battle (my answer was that we didn't know since we don't know any other species)
For the shivan being robots: I don't like that idea, that's sure, but I must admit I have no way to prove they're not, and that it does sound logical to use robots when you're a very advanced species.

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Posted by Londo Molari on 08-10-2001 03:37 AM:

DID SOMEONE SAY ZERG!?

perfect opportunity to prove my point!

zerg are sentient species who have weapons planted in them, so the species we encountered in Freespace are probably the real shivans?

well, ZERG were CREATED by the Xnel'ga !!!!!!!

so this is more supporting that what we encountered of the shivans were CONSTRUCTED drones/defence bots creates to run/protect the ship.

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Posted by Xaphod_x on 08-10-2001 11:50 AM:

Thing is, their ships aren't built three dimensionally, but the shivans or shivan drones or whatever are a very three dimensional creature capable of attacking in any direction, suggesting that a different species which worked more effectively forwards (like humans) built the ships.

I suppose this is the case, considering Volition is mostly comprised of humans.

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Posted by venom2506 on 08-10-2001 12:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Londo Molari
DID SOMEONE SAY ZERG!?

perfect opportunity to prove my point!

zerg are sentient species who have weapons planted in them, so the species we encountered in Freespace are probably the real shivans?

well, ZERG were CREATED by the Xnel'ga !!!!!!!

so this is more supporting that what we encountered of the shivans were CONSTRUCTED drones/defence bots creates to run/protect the ship.

mmh, not exactly. the xnel'naga built the overmind and the cerebrates. All the subspecies were grown by those entities, which NEVER served their creator, and destroyed them at the first opportunity.
Anyway, my best exemple is still starship trooper bugs for internal weaponary.

Posted by IronMajor on 08-10-2001 02:01 PM:

How do you know that Shivan ships are not built three dimentionaly? We haven't really seen the insides of a Shivan ship(except for the freighter, but that wasn't much). And once agian I site the fact that VOLITION has said that what we've seen are real Shivans, not robots or drones.

The only reason we as humans don't have genetically or surgicly modified soldiers is because the technology isn't quite there. But believe me, they're coming.

By the way, brains are quite good for beating creatures who lack them, but when your fighting other creatures with brains its nice to have an edge.

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Posted by venom2506 on 08-10-2001 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by IronMajor
The only reason we as humans don't have genetically or surgicly modified soldiers is because the technology isn't quite there. But believe me, they're coming.

I wouldn't bet they don't already exist...

Posted by Bman35 on 08-10-2001 05:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by venom2506

I wouldn't bet they don't already exist...

Conspiracy theory? Explain.....

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Posted by Bman35 on 08-10-2001 05:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Xaphod_x
Thing is, their ships aren't built three dimensionally, but the shivans or shivan drones or whatever are a very three dimensional creature capable of attacking in any direction, suggesting that a different species which worked more effectively forwards (like humans) built the ships.

Yes they are. The vid showing the marines entering a captured shivan vessel in fs1? (do you have fs1?). There were passagways all over the walls, clearly designed for a three dimensional creature.

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Posted by venom2506 on 08-10-2001 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bman35

Conspiracy theory? Explain.....

huh? no, just some kind of secret weapon, like they have so many in the armies all around the world

Posted by Xaphod_x on 08-10-2001 08:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bman35

Yes they are. The vid showing the marines entering a captured shivan vessel in fs1? (do you have fs1?). There were passagways all over the walls, clearly designed for a three dimensional creature.

which just means that their interiors could be designed for their sentries to move around in. I was meaning externally. All shivan ships are basically an arrow --->> attacking from the front. This suggests to me that the craft were designed by creatures that operated forwards, like humans do.

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Posted by Londo Molari on 08-11-2001 01:01 AM:

the zerg overmind WAS created by the Xn'elga and so its creations were still creations.... no naturally intelligent/sentient species have fused weapons with their own body...

as far as Starship Trooper Bugs, they are BUGS.... they dont have energy weapons fused in them....

Posted by venom2506 on 08-11-2001 01:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Londo Molari
as far as Starship Trooper Bugs, they are BUGS.... they dont have energy weapons fused in them....

Plasma bug, tanker bug... you have seen the movie, don't you?

Posted by Snipes on 08-11-2001 01:43 AM:

Um... It was already stated that shivans are not merely bugs, but cyborgs... and highly efficient killing machinesâ„¢

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