VWBB - FS2 sequel (well.........maybe)

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VWBB (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/index.php)
- FreeSpace 1/2 Discussion (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=33)
-- FS2 sequel (well.........maybe) (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=8219)

Posted by Cetanu on 02-05-2003 10:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by R128 BlueFlames
Which ever way the poll goes, life goes on, especially for the FreeSpace community, given what's on the immediate horizon for space combat sims (FreeLancer, 'nuff said).

Freelancer... more a mouseclick RPG then a true Spacesim

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Posted by Ulundel on 02-05-2003 11:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by R128 BlueFlames
Anyway, moral of the story, it's a poll, not armageddon. In all reality, Descent and FreeSpace are two great series that were robbed by poor advertising. Both are worthy of a sequel, so if a poll is going to determine which one goes on, it's another bad decision on the part of Interplay. Which ever way the poll goes, life goes on, especially for the FreeSpace community, given what's on the immediate horizon for space combat sims (FreeLancer, 'nuff said).

Yeah, they both deserve a sequel and that IS the point here. Descent is basically a trilogy, same goes for freespace. And that'd look very, very dumb if Interplay would continue building shooting robots than letting Volition to complete the FS trilogy.

But Freespace gets higher scores (only exception I could find was IGN) and its story is far more deeper. And as I said before - why continue with D4 if FS trilogy is uncompleted. And like someone said - it's the same as not making LOTR: return of the king or SW: ep3

Posted by Stealth on 02-05-2003 11:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve

And as I said before - why continue with D4 if FS trilogy is uncompleted. And like someone said - it's the same as not making LOTR: return of the king or SW: ep3

ahhh, but you forget: Interplay, Volition, THQ, Parallax, etc. never announced that Freespace was going to be a Trilogy game... we're taking that for granted.

Many times games come out just two. Look at Age of Empires, Red Alert, Red Faction, etc. same thing goes with movies. Look at Mission Impossible, The Mummy, etc.

we are just assuming they'll make Freespace 3 to complete the "trilogy". what trilogy? there never was one announced

quote:
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve

And that'd look very, very dumb if Interplay would continue building shooting robots than letting Volition to complete the FS trilogy.

If they keep building shooting robots that make millions in profit, then yeah, i'm sure they will continue making shooting robots

Remember, Freespace 2 was a dead loss, and they won't risk it again. Maybe they do realize it was because they didn't advertise/publicize it enough, but they're not going to risk it again. for all we know Freespace 2 could've been a dead loss even if they did advertise it enough! if i was Interplay i'd stick with games that have become legends, not games that have become losses

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Posted by Todd on 02-05-2003 11:19 PM:

FS2 made a profit. Not much of a profit, but it wasn't a loss.

Posted by aldo_14 on 02-05-2003 11:34 PM:

Nowadays, if your game doesn't instantly leap to the top of sales charts and rake in hunners o' cash, it is usually regarded as a failure by big business......

RE: D3 vs FS2 - stop bloody bickering. Go and argue over something important, like the next Old Firm derby.........

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Posted by ltnarol on 02-05-2003 11:35 PM:

Todd said it well, it doesnt matter if a game was planned to be a trilogy, the reality is that if it sells, you make another one under the same title. Fs2 just happens to have a great many loose ends which make a sequel practical if someone will only buy the thing.

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Posted by R128 BlueFlames on 02-05-2003 11:58 PM:

quote:
But Freespace gets higher scores (only exception I could find was IGN)

These are taken from the database on the most recent PCG demo disc. They are direct quotes from "The Final Word" box at the end of the reviews from the issue of PCG that they were published in. In other words, "Terrific graphics" for Descent 1 is in comparison to other games around in 1994.

quote:
PC Gamer review scores
Descent 1: 96%
Highs: Terrific graphics; nonstop action; true 3D environment
Lows: Complex controls take some time to master

Descent 2: 88%
Highs: Great new weapons, features, and graphics
Lows: Too many labyrinthine and claustrophobic levels; very, very tough

Descent 3: 93%
Highs: Leading edge graphics; mesmerizing level design; great AI; tons of multiplay options
Lows: Guidebot AI is dicey at times; steep system requirements

FreeSpace 1: 91%
Highs: Great graphics and smooth control. Robust mission editor and multiplayer options.
Lows: Short singleplayer campaign; thin story line

FreeSpace 2: 93%
Highs: Good mission scripting and story; large scale action and great graphics
Lows: Nothing really worth moaning about

Descent 2 (a glorified expansion, more than a sequel, if you ask me) aside, Descent and FreeSpace have been on par with each other in review scores. Generally, I recall Descent squeezing out a few more points than FreeSpace, but it's such a small margin that I'd consider the games more or less equal with the discrepency being accounted for by First Person Shooters being more popular. The margin's never been big enough to use review scores as a definitive answer to the question of which game is better.

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Posted by Stealth on 02-06-2003 12:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Todd
FS2 made a profit. Not much of a profit, but it wasn't a loss.

so at least you got payed...

are you payed on a commission basis?

but Todd, how much did FS2 make compared to Descent 3.

Descent is a legend
Freespace is not.

it doesn't matter whether they advertised it poorly or not... it's over, and Freespace 2 died a long time ago... there won't be a FS3.

Even if that poll is for real, and all the Interplay biggies are waiting for the results. Do you really think that they're going to make a Freespace 3 just because there were more votes for it? If so many people loved Freespace 2, then they would've bought it, and Freespace 2 wouldn't be dead now. The fact that more people went for Descent 3 is enough for them. It doens't matter if FS2's vote wins 99% and D3 is at 1%... they're not going to make a game based on a web-poll that's prone to cheating. they're going to base their decision on how much money the game made... and we all know the answer to that.

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Posted by Rictor on 02-06-2003 12:32 AM:

hey Stealth, I dont like it how you keep saying basically "theres no hope". Man cheer up damnit, you're making me become like you, and thats no good..It would seem, at first glance that there is little hope. But look at some games, some very excelent games which took 5 or 10 years to get a sequel..never lose hope cause theres always a mod/FS-like game or something around the corner, and I consider FS3 to be upcomming..sometime in the future..

anyways, Blueflames: thats some good points you make, but I'm still skeptical about your use of the auto-voter. I personally was asleep during this time of rapid growth (and I dont monitor the poll numbers anyway) but according to some people's posts, votes for Descent3 jumped as much as 2% in 5mins or 10% and hour.

You must admit that that is pretty unlikely, you would need thousands of people voting in the same minutes to pull it off.

As for commercial success/public acclaim, to me its not an indication of quality. As long as the Sims holds its rule over PCgaming, as long as The Sims or Halflife Expansion XY sells 10 times better than Freespace or Descent or any other quality title, copies sold dont matter..to me

However to big buisness, they probably do. Its funny how the Interplay motto is: "For gamer by gamers"..Aside from THQ, I dont think any company has done a worse job of trying to keep the gamers happy instead of the accountant happy. And Ironcially enough, guess where Volition is now..THQ hehe

The thing is, I think that due to its popularity among the general gamer public, Descent will get a sequel. Freespace needs more of a push, and this may be that push.

Well thats my little speach, guys dont stop voting (now more than ever) for Freespace, cause its never too late to trun the poll around, and uhm..thats it

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Posted by aldo_14 on 02-06-2003 12:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by R128 BlueFlames

The margin's never been big enough to use review scores as a definitive answer to the question of which game is better.

There is no definitive answer - it's obviously going to be a matter of personal preference.

Posted by Knight Templar on 02-06-2003 12:42 AM:

*Ahem*

@ Descent 3 fans

//Image deleted... inappropriate

@ Stealth

//Image deleted... inappropriate

@ Teno' : Dude, wassup? Get me on ICQ.

fin

Knight Templar... at the moment the only board you can still spam (people you know) is Volitionwatch. Unfortunately for you i'm a moderator here, and i don't appreciate you posting pictures with "F*** off" and "You're gay" written on them.

Should you not be allowed to post here, your life would be gone, as you wouldn't be able to spam this board all day.

Don't push it.

~Stealth

heheh.. dumbass

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Posted by Stealth on 02-06-2003 01:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rictor
hey Stealth, I dont like it how you keep saying basically "theres no hope".

no, you're getting me all wrong... what i'm trying to say is:
"there's no hope"

and there's not if you really look at it

for two reasons:

1) this poll is not for real. i can just see a webmaster putting it up just to get people to come to the site, and hey... it worked!

If it were for real... like if Interplay truly wanted to know what the public wants them to make, for one they'd make a much more secure poll, with PHP, CGI, or something. You see, this poll you can vote as many times as you want, even using an automatic voter, which are pretty easy to program. So it's inaccurate. If they were serious, they'd at least have a better poll.

2) Even if the poll is for real... what's the chances that they're going to make a sequel to a game that barely broke even (yeah... barely broke even, see Todd's post a little up).
Why do that when you could make a game where you know people will support. They've seen people support Descent 1, 2, and even 3 all the way, and no matter how many people vote for "Freespace 2", they're going to say

"Wait a minute, Freespace 2 was the biggest loss of all the games we've made... just because a couple of hardcore fans like it, should we make it? Hell no... we'll make Descent 4, where we know from years of experience that thousands and thousands of people will buy it"

I know that's what i would do! American businesses, as Blue Flames said, are ruthless. If a game does not do well, they're not going to risk it making a sequel, unless there's drastic circumstances. (i.e. they made Freespace 2 during the great depression when no one could afford to buy it, etc.). Freespace 2 has no excuse really to them. Sure, they did a pathetic job of advertising it, but you think they're going to blame themselves? Of course not.

Keep voting, but i'm done. a good 50 votes are mine, and i'm finished. Like it or not, Freespace 3 is not going to happen, and if it does, Interplay's sure not going to make it judged on the results of a insecure poll...

now i'm not saying don't be a fan of FS2. i know i'm a fan... but i'm saying don't go thinking that is FS2 wins this poll there's going to be a FS3 released next year... there's not... perhaps Interplay might think of FS a little more, but they won't make a new game because of this...

And also, if you're going to vote, forget cheating, and forget accusing others of cheating.

c'mon

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Posted by Rictor on 02-06-2003 01:12 AM:

I can understand you not personally believing in FS3, but your sig does say Manager of VolitionWatch or something like that. If your demoralizing people, how about not saying anything..

I'm just saying, that you may think you are a realist, but giving up hope decreases the chances of a sequel (we're whats left of the Freespace community, so basically if we give up..) from the already low chances..

I'de say that FS3 is comming. May take a few years, but it'll happen, as soon as Volition and the Freespace license end up in the right company's hands, we're set..

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Posted by Stealth on 02-06-2003 01:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rictor
I can understand you not personally believing in FS3, but your sig does say Manager of VolitionWatch or something like that. If your demoralizing people, how about not saying anything..

Supposed to be website manager, not Volitionwatch manager by any means. but thanks

i am not saying don't vote, i'm all for people voting...

what i'm saying is don't think that if the FS2 poll wins that there'll be a FS3 coming. don't get your hopes up too soon, cause everyone here seems to think that when the poll wins, Interplay starts work on a FS3.

I'm just saying, that you may think you are a realist, but giving up hope decreases the chances of a sequel (we're whats left of the Freespace community, so basically if we give up..) from the already low chances..
Don't give up, keep voting... i'm sure in a few years FS3 will come out.

I'de say that FS3 is comming. May take a few years, but it'll happen, as soon as Volition and the Freespace license end up in the right company's hands, we're set..
Years... note...

from switching companies, perhaps... but not from this poll

Listen, i'm one of the biggest FS fans on this board i'm sure. I've also been playing FS longer than most people on this board (people like IceFire and others excluded)
I'd love to see a FS3, and when i first heard of the poll, i thought "Awesome... it's finally coming"

But BlueFlames has a point... Read his first post in this thread, i think it was about a page back.

Sure, I think one day there will be a FS3. But it won't be this soon

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Posted by Rictor on 02-06-2003 01:25 AM:

i agree to disagree...i dont agree to that

hehe ok man, I'll just leave it..

maybe this poll wont make every Interplay exec tremble at the power of the fans, but if it helps a little, if it gives FS3 a chance, then I'm happy..

hey BTW, where do you turn of cookies..cause I voted alot a day or two ago, but if cookies were on then maybe it didnt register

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Posted by DigiJo on 02-06-2003 01:44 AM:

i dont think that this poll important for any kind of desicion about d4 or fs3 from interplay. only thing counting for companys is money!

and in this case a d4 would have a better chance to be made cause the descent gameplay is inimitable, if they would descide to make a d4 they dont have to compete against other products on the market, there is nothing similar to descent. (play descentseries in mp and you know what i mean)

dont understand me wrong, fs1 and fs2 was great games, i bought them both and still play them sometimes in sp, but there are a lot other spacesims/shooter out like xwing alliance (was better, my personal opinion) and a lot games in fs-style are coming out soon so make a game like this is a high risk for the companies.

well what to type so much, i think a.) the poll i useless. and b both games will get a sequel, just a matter of time. the question is only "when" and from what company. and c.)if that happens d4 has the better chance for that cause its unique sp and mp-gameplay and e.) interplay got a lot of hits on there webpage, what was the name of there upcoming games on the news? i forgot them hehe

greets,
DigiJo

forgot, to all fs-fans, i like this games really, but try d3 and jump in some mp-levels, ladies and gentlemen believe me you would switch your fav game to descent.

Posted by Knight Templar on 02-06-2003 01:46 AM:

Re: *Ahem*

quote:
Originally posted by Knight Templar
@ Descent 3 fans

//Image deleted... inappropriate

@ Stealth

//Image deleted... inappropriate

@ Teno' : Dude, wassup? Get me on ICQ.

fin

Knight Templar... at the moment the only board you can still spam (people you know) is Volitionwatch. Unfortunately for you i'm a moderator here, and i don't appreciate you posting pictures with "F*** off" and "You're gay" written on them.

Should you not be allowed to post here, your life would be gone, as you wouldn't be able to spam this board all day.

Don't push it.

~Stealth

heheh.. dumbass

My god... each and everytime I get over thinking you can't do any worse, you soar to a new low.

This place is annoying me now, I think I'll just excuse myself to the hole or some classwork or something.

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Posted by ltnarol on 02-06-2003 02:03 AM:

2 very simple facts:

1. Freespace2 was not advertised, atleast not well and not for a sufficient amount of time. It doesn't matter the quality of the product, if no one knows about it, its not gonna sell. I didn't find out about it until late 2001, a good 3 years after the game hit the market and that was only because a close friend showed it to me while I was at his house. Its important to note that FS2 falls squarely in the genre of games I look for and buy; I spent 7 weeks looking for it after I found out about it.

2. If a game has enough fans, it's sequel will sell. The only thing that game makers look at is the ratio of projected cost and projected return. If they think enough people will buy a Decent 4, they'll make a Decent 4; if they think enough people will buy a Freespace 3, they'll make a Freespace 3. Whether or not a previous game did well makes little difference as long as there are enough people who want what comes next.

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Posted by Hades on 02-06-2003 02:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by DigiJo

forgot, to all fs-fans, i like this games really, but try d3 and jump in some mp-levels, ladies and gentlemen believe me you would switch your fav game to descent.

I've tried D3 single and multi-player. Didn't last very long for me. I soon was crawling back to fs2.

I've tried UT2K3, Battlefield 1942, Earth and Beyond, Red Alert 2, and loads of other games, but I always come back to fs2. Why? Because it has as many possibilities as I want. And the Source Code Project is making those possibilities larger.

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Posted by Stealth on 02-06-2003 02:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ltnarol

Whether or not a previous game did well makes little difference as long as there are enough people who want what comes next.

Somewhat true...

You know, of course, that this poll is not accurate. People from this community and the Descent community have been voting their asses off, so the results are not going to be accurate. Of course even if this poll was for real, Interplay realizes that, and so like i said, they're not going to make the game based on this poll. hopefully this poll will strike their interest up, but i'm sure they won't make the game based on the number of votes

quote:

My god... each and everytime I get over thinking you can't do any worse, you soar to a new low.

This place is annoying me now, I think I'll just excuse myself to the hole or some classwork or something.

I'm sorry, but if you post images telling communities to "f*** off" and calling people gay, that's inappropriate.

If you wish to excuse yourself then please do, and don't blame it on other people just because you post pictures like that.

quote:
And the Source Code Project is making those possibilities larger.

That's what everyone, myself included, is keeping their fingers crossed about

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