VWBB - Centauri vs Earth Alliance

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Posted by Triggy on 11-21-2001 01:01 AM:

Centauri vs Earth Alliance

I thought that through all of this recent spamming going on, we needed a serious(?!?) debate to calm everyone down.

My question is really; "How do you think a war between the Centauri and the Earth Alliance would progress in the year 2261, after the Shadow War and ignoring the EA civil war."

Now I know that this situation is highly hypothetical but I have mainly posted it out of interest in the relative military, economic, industrial and technological capabilities of the two empires.

Feel free to comment on any aspect of such a confrontation and by the way, no allies

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Posted by ivanenski on 11-21-2001 01:07 AM:

Triggy, you just opened Pandora's Box with this one. My personal opinion, if EA doesn't have any Warlocks, then the Centauri win.

Posted by Skullar on 11-21-2001 01:25 AM:

Centauri would win. They have more advanced technology. Only the Minbari can resist the Centauri. Garibaldi mentioned Centauri military technology is incredible !

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Posted by mobvekhar on 11-21-2001 01:30 AM:

Don't look at technology only.. remember how valiant the EA fought against the Minbari? I think EA can take on the Centauri, but just barely

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Posted by IceFire on 11-21-2001 01:31 AM:

On the other hand, the Earth Alliance has less ground to cover and a fairly substantial number of ships. The Centauri have already just fought a war against the Narn, undoubtedly lost a number of ships (despite successes), and their manpower has got to have been depleted.

Now despite advances, they didn't seem to have an incredible amount of advantage over the Narn ships...yes the Narn lost the war but they were outmanuvered and didn't have the numbers. The Earth Alliance does have the numbers and has decently powerful weapons.

If the EA can take on a Drakh attack fleet on a few hours notice and do fairly decently, then I think they can handle the Centauri. Its definately not a clear cut victory on either side, but its not one sided either.

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Posted by Londo Molari on 11-21-2001 04:05 AM:

Centauri Fleets have been building to full power, remember their huge ass fleet in Season 5?

I would say that the EA would be able to successfully defend Itself from the Centauri. The Centauri wouldn't be able to defeat or conquer the EA, but they would definitely be more aggressive in the war.

And this is with or without warlocks. Because even in 2267 (6 yrs later) they had what only a handful of warlocks, and I think that everyone overestimates the warlock. I think that if we replaced all Omega's with warlocks, then the EA would equal the centauri.

We must not underestimate the speed and immensely powerful weapons of the Vorchan.

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Posted by pera on 11-21-2001 06:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Londo Molari
Centauri Fleets have been building to full power, remember their huge ass fleet in Season 5?

I would say that the EA would be able to successfully defend Itself from the Centauri. The Centauri wouldn't be able to defeat or conquer the EA, but they would definitely be more aggressive in the war.

And this is with or without warlocks. Because even in 2267 (6 yrs later) they had what only a handful of warlocks, and I think that everyone overestimates the warlock. I think that if we replaced all Omega's with warlocks, then the EA would equal the centauri.

We must not underestimate the speed and immensely powerful weapons of the Vorchan.

I'm sorry, but if we replaced every Omega with a Warcock, the EA would have a decent change against the Minbari, not to mention the Centauri.

Posted by Warwind45 on 11-21-2001 07:03 AM:

Im Kinda Rusty on B5 towards the end of season 5, HELP ME
But ive been reading several sites and There mention that
the centari are in a War with the ISA? Was that goign badly
for the centari, or the ISA (considering they dont have much Ships).
If the centari Was winning, (or won) then i think they would be
able to best the EA.

...........hmmm wait a minute....i change my mind, EA would win, You cant underestimate the human spirit, EA flung itself at the minbari fleet, knowing no damage could be done substantally, if they do the same aganst centari, there would definately be a dent in the centari ships (not to mention a gapping hole, and a latter explosion)

Posted by Triggy on 11-21-2001 09:19 AM:

About the Centauri fleet build up. The Centauri increased their military budget with no appreciable war going on (indicating a large industrial reserve available). This led to them having a fleet capable of sustaining war with many other league worlds simultaneously including the Drazi and Brakiri.

The War of Retribution against the Narn never went badly, only slowly against that level of determination and hatred. At short notice the Centauri could organise a fleet capable of decimating the Narn homeworld.

Admittedly the EA has similar industrial reserves in the short term at least and a sizable fleet, but bear in mind that the EA's fleet is generally of a lower technological level then the Centauri. During a war the EA may advance some more though and a key part of the war would be how quickly Earth's scientists could develop the Warlock, etc.

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Posted by Tiletron on 11-21-2001 12:16 PM:

As I see it, technology and economy can be a real factor in a war, but until you're actually fighting in it, there's no real way you'll know how it will end.

I think that only the amount of determination on both sides of a conflict, and the strategy shown by each force will also decide the fate of a war, along with a lot of praying to god that your race will be the one that survives with enough of your population to rebuild.

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Posted by Thyriel on 11-21-2001 12:57 PM:

Correct me if I am wrong but the Vorchan's did not carry fighters and had very little to no anti fighter capabilities. With the fighter orientation of the EA, the EA could use it to achieve some advantage. Although I believe that the Centauri technology is high, I also believe that EA would not fare that badly. On the defending side they would be able to do quite well. On the attack, well, if they had to fight the battles on Centauri terms, I guess they would get into troubles. A lot would depend on tactics. Centauri tactics are very slow as was mentioned in their war against Narn and they had substential help from the Shadows. Without the shadows the war would have gone on for much much longer. I believe that EA would be able to defend itself if it got to fight battles on its own terms.

Posted by Mr. Fury on 11-21-2001 01:40 PM:

About Centauri tactics:

They use Vorchans against enemy capital ships.
Vorchans are quite fast and maneuverable, hard to target with fixed primary weapons.
They launches energy mines at long range, mines are capable of crippling or even destroy Drazi Sunhawk.

Sentry fighters are used as fighter cover for Vorchans, Sentries can outmaneuver starfuries but they don't have as powerful weapons, they are able to shoot SF down in one or two shots howewer.

Primus is fighter carrier, providing long range artillery fire against any enemy ship. Primus is capable of defending itself from any attacker. In EA fleet, only Omega and Warlock can win it (Tempest?).

About EA tactics:

Omega have an excellent omni-directional firepower, it's main guns can focus on Primuses while other guns can fire at Vorchans and it's fighter cover. Few Vorchans are enough to cripple an Omega, so fighter cover is essential.

Also Hyperions/Midwinters are excellent firesupport against Vorchans and Sentries. But alone they are quickly dispatched.

Thunderbolts have good weapons to keep Vorchans busy, but additional fighters are needed if Sentries are about.

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Posted by haderak on 11-21-2001 02:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Thyriel
Correct me if I am wrong but the Vorchan's did not carry fighters and had very little to no anti fighter capabilities.

or this is a joke or you havent watched the show at all... the vorchan can blast any fighter with a single shot. Plus their fire rate, range and acuracy makes it a formidable oponent even to several fighter formations. The vorchan is probably the best balanced and flexible ship of its class in the show, it can take on much bigger ships, they are numerous, they fly in groups, they are resilient and robust, their easy to build. what more could you ask from ship like this?
Hvae you seen how easely the vorchan gun can blast a fighter without even giving it a fighting chance? wach Centairi-narn war and the centauri invasion on drazi space...that will show you how goo these ships are.

quote:
Originally posted by Icefire
If the EA can take on a Drakh attack fleet on a few hours notice and do fairly decently, then I think they can handle the Centauri

Hey Ice this doesnt even seem to be coming from you...in ACTA thats the battle your referring to, that was not EA, That was ISA+all EA force avaiable in the area. Besides if you remenber correclty the drakh werent exactly ready either they were still assembling a fleet when they were discovered, as it was revealed in this story galen who has watched their movements said they would moove anyway if discovered.

in this topic...NO ALIES as it was specified above... and if we disscussed this battle you can see how badly the alied fleet was damaged,
there were at least one sharlin being blown away in that battle, I saw it. theres no possible comparhison, EA was going down if there was no support from other races.

My opinion is that the centauri could win if they were wiling to pay the price.. a huge death toll on both sides. 2 things could happen:
1)the centauri wold get realy mad and destroy EA at all costs or:
2)the centauri would give up due the fact that it wouldn be cost/effective and EA in desperation of cause would obliterate a large number of ceantauri assets untill the enemy decided they couldn afford such a attrition and losses on their side.

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Posted by IceFire on 11-21-2001 03:03 PM:

quote:
Hey Ice this doesnt even seem to be coming from you...in ACTA thats the battle your referring to, that was not EA, That was ISA+all EA force avaiable in the area. Besides if you remenber correclty the drakh werent exactly ready either they were still assembling a fleet when they were discovered, as it was revealed in this story galen who has watched their movements said they would moove anyway if discovered.

That was two prototype Victory destroyers without full armament and no fighter complement and a number of ISA member ships, but lets not forget that the majority of the force was comprised of Earth destroyers, heavy cruisers, and fighters. Most of the ships we see are Omegas with interspersed Sharlins, Avioki's and WhiteStars.

So who dealt the damage to the Drakh fleet? It was the Earth Alliance force that did most of the damage. Did the Victory class win it for them, yeah, but without that screen of destroyers, neither the Victory nor the Excalibur would have made it.

I'd say thats a pretty impressive standup fight.

quote:
or this is a joke or you havent watched the show at all... the vorchan can blast any fighter with a single shot. Plus their fire rate, range and acuracy makes it a formidable oponent even to several fighter formations. The vorchan is probably the best balanced and flexible ship of its class in the show, it can take on much bigger ships, they are numerous, they fly in groups, they are resilient and robust, their easy to build. what more could you ask from ship like this?

Actually, Vorchan's aren't that incredibly strong. The reason they operate in groups is because they are vulnerable by themselves. They have weaker armor than ships of similar size and most of their firepower is oriented towards the front. They make amazing assault ships, but a Hyperion Heavy Cruiser with its complement of Badgers would do some serious damage to a small group of Vorchans before they would have a chance to knock out the Hyperion. Why? Because the Badgers would encircle them and take out their engines.

Throw in a Midwinter and the odds are even better. Yes those Vorchans are going to put a hole the size of a giant watermellon in that Heavy Cruiser but their are going to be left spinning out of control in space.

Vorchans are part of the Centauri fleet, they are not everything. Without a Primus to provide extra firepower and Sentri's to prevent fighter attacks, they are screwed. It doesn't really matter what your main gun is if you're pointing the wrong direction.

Posted by mobvekhar on 11-21-2001 04:02 PM:

Sentri's are good fighters, but have light armor. A Thunderbolt would kick it's ass in my opinion..

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Posted by Prophet on 11-21-2001 04:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Sentry fighters are used as fighter cover for Vorchans, Sentries can outmaneuver starfuries but they don't have as powerful weapons, they are able to shoot SF down in one or two shots howewer.

My impression was, that Sentries have very good wepons. According to my knowledge they have high rate of fire and do much more damage than StarFury. Yes?

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Posted by Mr. Fury on 11-21-2001 04:39 PM:

Hmm... might be. But in my knowledge their weapons are less powerful, I might be wrong though. Sentries armor is lower than Thunderbolts but what it matters if they can shot each other apart in one or two shots?

Posted by IceFire on 11-21-2001 04:54 PM:

Shoot...the word is shoot

Sentri's are fast and fairly manuverable and capable of higher G turns than StarFuries, but the StarFury has better trajectory modification than Sentri's because of those wing mounted thruster pods that give them huge advantages there.

Sentri's guns are technically more powerful and fire fairly rapidly, but the lack of any major protection for the ship makes it very vulnerable to even glancing blows.

The Centauri fighter philosophy is to outmanuver and quickly overwhealm an opponent. If the Sentri doesn't win the engagement with other fighters in a few seconds, they will most likely scumb to the durrability of the other fighters in a morn drawn out battle.

Posted by TheEXone on 11-21-2001 05:16 PM:

Don't forget that a a squadron of starfuries helped destroy a Primus, it doesn't seem to me that the Centauri are all that powerful. Yes their ships are manuverable, but ultimatley I think their arrogance could be exploited by the EA. Also the Narns do prettey well against the Centauri, as long as the shadows don't help. So if the Narns can put up a good fight, Earth might win.

Also has anyone ever wondered why the EA did not act even once in the ISA- Centauri conflict? I'm sure their shipping lanes were attacked in one of the episodes.

Posted by IceFire on 11-21-2001 05:20 PM:

Because they were licking their wounds from the Civil War maybe? Good point.

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